Tuesday, March 19, 2024

Hear You Him

 adventure that explodes, impacting many other lives in the process. The weary are strengthened. The frightened are emboldened. The powerless are encouraged. The weak are made strong. Closed doors are opened. The imprisoned are set free. Names and lives are changed forever. As a toddler, my son, Jake, had a few favorite and very exciting


Bible storybooks. Each night, he begged us to read them over and over and over. Integral to each story was a very specific conversation between the person in the story and God. Interestingly, Jake never questioned how the individual heard God speak to him he even heard God talk out loud. He, like most children, inherently understood that talking is a basic method of communication. Jake didn't express doubt that God spoke in the past or in the present, or that God could be heard or understood by people of any age or of any occupation. Jake just seemed comfortable with the idea that God talked to everyone because everyone talks.


So, on one occasion, when I had to discipline my young son for unruly behavior, I sent him off to his bedroom for what we called a time-out. As he sauntered down the long hallway to his room, I suggested that he get "alone with God" and have a conversation with Him about his attitude. What is a mother to do when her child yells from his bedroom after only a few short minutes in confinement, "Mom, I talked to God and I told Him I'm sorry and He told me I can come out of my room now!"


If children find so easy to believe that God talks to us and they possess a basic understanding of why God talks to us, then why does the idea of God talking to us seem so difficult for adults to grasp?


In his book Hearing God, Dallas Willard explains that if we could envision ourselves in a Bible story, then we'd view the Bible less as dogma and doctrine and more like our own reality. He writes that biblical men and women were no different than men and women of any generation, saying, "If we are really to understand the Bible record, we must enter into our study of it on the assumption that the experiences recorded there are basically of the same type as ours would have been if we had been there.Those who lived through those experiences felt very much as we would have if we had been in their place. Unless this comes home to us, the things that happened to the people in the Bible will remain unreal to us. We will not genuinely be able to believe the Bible or find its contents to be real because it will have no experiential substance for us."


Give it a try. Put yourself within the mix of the writers of the psalms as their friends or family members were mocking them, or their employers were hunting them down to destroy them. Can you relate to their struggles? Do you have similar needs or concerns? As you read the following passages, do they inspire you to direct these words toward the living, loving God, or to make them your own?


Psalm 138, verse 3 says, "As soon as I pray, you answer me; you encourage me by giving me strength" (NLT).


Psalm 25, verse 14 says, "The Lord confides in those who fear him; he makes his covenant known to them."


Psalm 119:34, 38 says, "Give me understanding, reassure me of your promise" (NLT).


One hundred and fifty psalms contain the written conversations of those who knew God talked to them directly. This belief is evidenced by the way they poured out their hearts to Him, as if to say, "Talk to me!" Packed with verbal expressions of need, hope,and inquiry, the psalmists transparently and honestly relayed their utter dependence on their God they could not see but were convinced was always present and available to talk to them. Verse after verse of the psalms has the ability to carry you away to a place of passionate, emotional, two-way conversations with God. In fact, the entire Bible - both the Old and New Testaments - consistently

Monday, March 18, 2024

Why God Talks to You? 神为何对你说话

Yes, Why God Talks to You. 

Because I travel so frequently, I've come to expect the extra time and effort it takes to get re-dressed -- belt, shoes, jacket -- in any airport security lane. So you can imagine my delight when I arrived at my gate for a very early morning flight with plenty of time to spare.

Surveying the gate area, I perched myself about ten feet from the check-in counter -- in a perfect position to board first. I was pleasantly surprised by the lack of hub bub that normally characterizes morning departures. In fact, the only people anywhere near me were two gate agents chatting it up behind the counter. Not even one customer was around to ask to change seats or sign up to fly standby.

Neatly organized in my "mobile office space" with phone in hand, purse slung over my shoulder, and roller bag at my side, I finally relaxed enough to get a little work done while waiting for boarding to be announced. I pulled the stylus out of my phone, made a few taps, and began watching the emails roll into my inbox.

是的,《为什么神与你说话》。

 因为我经常出差,所以我开始期望在机场的任何安检通道中都需要额外的时间和精力来重新打扮——腰带、鞋子、夹克。 因此,您可以想象,当我乘坐清晨的航班抵达登机口并有充足的空闲时间时,我的喜悦之情溢于言表。

 我环视了登机口区域,在距离值机柜台约十英尺的地方坐下——这是一个最适合先登机的位置。 令我惊喜的是,这里没有通常早上出发的枢纽机场。 事实上,我附近唯一的人是两个在柜台后面闲聊的登机口工作人员。 甚至没有一位顾客要求换座位或报名飞行候补。

 我手里拿着手机,肩上挎着钱包,身边放着滚轮包,整齐地整理着我的“移动办公空间”,在等待登机通知的同时,我终于可以放松地完成一些工作了。 我从手机中拔出手写笔,轻敲了几下,然后开始看着电子邮件滚入我的收件箱。

Not a minute had passed when I heard a loud shuffle, then a huge sigh. I looked up to find a short woman who had positioned herself almost on top of me. She was wearing a casual jogging outfit and appeared to be both distraught and a bit disheveled. She didn't have the "look" of a frequent flyer, so I immediately assumed that her experience in the airport security lane had taken its toll on her -- all the repacking, gathering, and patting down is often more than an occasional passenger is ready to handle so early in the day. But because she had nestled so close to me, especially when there was ample space to sit or stand anywhere else, I asked, in a CPR-ish kind of way, "Are you OK?"


"No," she didn't hesitate to reply.


For those of you who don't know me personally, I'm made for conversations like these. I love to talk to people, especially strangers!


So I asked a follow-up question: "What's wrong?" My father died yesterday, and I have to fly all the way from

California to Newark, New Jersey, by myself. I don't think I can do it. And I don't want to be alone," she blurted out.


I dropped my phone into my purse, looked her straight in the eye, and asked, "What's your name?"


She replied, "Diane."


"Diane, you're not alone," I said firmly. I asked, "Do you believe in God?" I must have been using my "outside" voice because in that moment, I saw one of the gate agents stop chatting and glance my way. But I pressed on when she nodded her head up and down, signaling a yes.


I said, "Diane, God will be with you on this plane. You're never alone." Then I asked, "Can I pray for you?"


She looked almost relieved and truly grateful... until I put my hand on her shoulder. She obviously wasn't anticipating that I would pray for her right then and there in the boarding lane of our gate. But it was too late at that point. I closed my eyes to pray, but not before catching the glance of the second gate agent, who was probably wondering why a prayer meeting had just sprung up at his counter. So, in my usual conversational manner, I began to pray for Diane - out loud. "Lord, be with Diane. Relieve her fears. You know how she's hurting. Please speak to her about her father, this trip, and her family. Be with her. Let her know that she's not alone. Thank you, Lord, for being with us during these times of sadness and pain. We love you. Amen."


I looked up and saw a genuine peace had come over Diane's face. She couldn't stop saying, "Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much."


We boarded the plane shortly after our "boarding gate" prayer and didn't see each other again until a few hours later when she accidentally brushed my shoulder on her way back to the lavatory. I looked up just as she looked down; we were both surprised. She burst into a smile. Then she quickly bent down and whispered in my ear, "I'm not alone."


The first reason God talks to you is because He loves you.


God loves you so much that He is willing to reach into your heart with words of hope.


The death of a loved one, especially a parent, has the capacity to make time stand still like few other experiences.


My father, a typical midwestern blue-collar worker for most of his adult life, was a fun-loving, gentle man. Admirably, he was married fifty years to my mother and very content with very little. From childhood, though, he indulged in tobacco. His habit ranged from enjoying cigars with buddies on the golf course during his teens and twenties, to acquiring a variety of smoking pipes and stuffing them with aromatic tobacco that filled our home during the '50s and '60s. Eventually, he had to sneak a few puffs from his filter-less cigarettes whenever he could-outside, in the garage, or while walking the dog-thinking that he was hiding, or at least trying to hide, his habit from us.

还没过一分钟,我就听到一声响亮的脚步声,然后是一声巨大的叹息。 我抬头一看,发现一个身材矮小的女人几乎压在我身上。 她穿着一身休闲慢跑服,看上去既心烦意乱,又有点凌乱。 她没有常旅客的“外表”,所以我立即认为她在机场安检通道的经历对她造成了影响——所有的重新包装、收集和搜查往往不仅仅是一个偶然的乘客 这么早就准备好处理了。 但因为她离我太近了,尤其是当有足够的空间可以坐下或站到其他地方时,我以心肺复苏术式的方式问:“你还好吗?”


 “不,”她毫不犹豫地回答。


 对于那些不认识我个人的人来说,我是为这样的对话而生的。 我喜欢与人交谈,尤其是陌生人!


 于是我又问了一个问题:“怎么了?” 我父亲昨天去世了,我必须千里迢迢地飞来


 加利福尼亚州到新泽西州纽瓦克,我一个人。 我想我做不到。 我不想一个人呆着,”她脱口而出。


 我把手机放进包里,直视着她的眼睛,问道:“你叫什么名字?”


 她回答说:“黛安。”


 “黛安,你并不孤单,”我坚定地说。 我问:“你信上帝吗?” 我一定是用了“外部”的声音,因为在那一刻,我看到一名登机口工作人员停止了聊天,并向我这边看了一眼。 但当她上下点头表示同意时,我继续说道。


 我说:“黛安,上帝会在这架飞机上与你同在。你永远不会孤单。” 然后我问:“我可以为你祈祷吗?”


 她看起来几乎如释重负,而且真的很感激……直到我把手放在她的肩膀上。 她显然没有预料到我会在登机口的登机通道上为她祈祷。 但那时已经太晚了。 我闭上眼睛祈祷,但在看到第二个登机口工作人员的目光之前,他可能想知道为什么他的柜台突然出现了祈祷会。 因此,以我惯常的交谈方式,我开始大声为黛安祈祷。 “主啊,与黛安同在。减轻她的恐惧。你知道她有多受伤。请和她谈谈她的父亲、这次旅行和她的家庭。与她在一起。让她知道她并不孤单。谢谢你,主, 在这些悲伤和痛苦的时刻与我们在一起。我们爱你。阿门。”


 我抬起头,发现黛安的脸上露出了真正的平静。 她忍不住说:“非常感谢你,非常感谢你,非常感谢你。”


 我们在“登机口”祈祷后不久就登上了飞机,直到几个小时后,她在返回厕所的路上不小心擦到了我的肩膀时才再次见面。 我抬起头,她也低下头; 我们都很惊讶。 她突然笑了。 然后她赶紧弯下腰,在我耳边低声说道:“我并不孤单。”


 神与你说话的第一个原因是因为他爱你。


 神如此爱你,以至于他愿意用充满希望的话语进入你的内心。


 亲人的去世,尤其是父母的去世,能够让时间像其他经历一样停滞不前。


 我的父亲在成年后的大部分时间里都是典型的中西部蓝领工人,是一个风趣、温柔的人。 令人钦佩的是,他与我母亲结婚五十年了,却对自己的一切感到非常满足。 然而,他从小就沉迷于烟草。 他的习惯包括从十几岁和二十几岁时与朋友在高尔夫球场上享受雪茄,到在五十年代和六十年代购买各种烟斗并在里面塞满芳香烟草,这些烟斗充满了我们的家。 最终,他不得不一有机会就偷偷吸上几口无过滤嘴香烟——在外面、在车库里,或者在遛狗的时候——认为他正在向我们隐瞒,或者至少试图隐瞒他的习惯。

For the last ten years of my father's life, he couldn't walk or breathe easily because he had smoked for many years, and he just couldn't quit. We talked about his habit endlessly. Doctors repeatedly warned him of the devastation the tobacco smoke was having on his lungs. He continually promised us he would quit smoking. He just didn't - or couldn't.

Then, one Sunday night in April, my mother called each of her three children, all of us born in Cleveland, Ohio, and now residents of sunny California. Mom asked us to come home on the next plane. She delivered the sad news that our father had suffered a very serious heart attack - and he was in a coma.

Over a twenty-four hour period, each of us arrived in Cleveland by order of our birth-my sister first, then my brother, then me. As if on cue, my father awoke from his coma within an hour of his youngest child's arrival. We held each other, prayed softly and often, realizing Dad had a very short memory. Showing pictures helped him get his bearings, but he often reverted back to an earlier time and place that was happiest for him. Nevertheless, we cherished every moment together, taking turns sleeping at the hospital.

For about five days, Dad's breathing and memory slowly improved, so he was placed in a "step-down" unit and taken off life-support machines. Our family felt relieved that he would soon be coming home, and we started making plans for his recovery.

Comforted by Dad's prognosis, we all decided to sleep in our own beds for the first time since arriving in Cleveland, rather than camping out on one of the hospital couches in a nearby waiting room. So after the rest of the family went home for dinner, I stayed a few more hours to watch the Cleveland Indians baseball game with my dad. A die-hard Cleveland Indians fan that had not seen a World Championship pennant awarded since the 1950s, he had been energized by the Indians' exciting season the previous year. It had revived his hope for a victory that he had not felt for decades. Together, we thoroughly enjoyed watching all nine innings of the away game against the Toronto Blue Jays. And though it continued late into the evening, Dad stayed awake and alert through every pitch, every hit, and the eventual win. As the game ended, I asked Dad if I could say a little prayer with him -- and as our hands met in an unexpected clasp, I asked God to take away any fear and send angels to surround him. I kissed his forehead, walked down the hospital corridor, and heard Dad ask the nurse, "Did you hear that nice prayer, my daughter prayed for me?"

Our family awoke to a phone call early the next morning,asking us to come to the hospital quickly - Dad had experienced another severe heart attack. We threw on our coats and rushed to the hospital. As we entered the step-down unit, a nurse met us with the very sad news that Dad had died in his sleep and could not be resuscitated.

We left the hospital as quickly as we had arrived, a bit shaken, mostly stunned because we had no further opportunity to be with Dad or talk to him. As the day unfolded, we were required to make a number of decisions that would define my father's life. We made calls to our families, and many times, we were so choked up with emotion. We couldn't even talk.

My husband, still in California, though he had gotten the news earlier in the day, called later in the afternoon to ask, "Have you heard God's voice today?" He added, "You don't want to miss God's voice." Then he encouraged me to spend time alone with God, talking to Him and listening to Him.

Our shared daily habit of listening to God talk has remained the same for years. Each day, we open a 365-day Bible to "today's"reading-so listening to God talk to us on that April 27 would be no different. On that day, the New Testament reading relayed the story of Jesus talking about life after death, found in chapter 23 of Luke. The last verse of the day's reading said, "And Jesus

在我父亲生命的最后十年里,他走路或呼吸都困难,因为他抽了很多年烟,而且他就是戒不掉。 我们没完没了地谈论他的习惯。 医生反复警告他烟草烟雾对他的肺部造成的破坏。 他不断向我们保证他会戒烟。 他只是没有——或者不能。


 然后,四月的一个周日晚上,我母亲给她的三个孩子分别打电话,我们都出生在俄亥俄州克利夫兰,现在居住在阳光明媚的加利福尼亚州。 妈妈让我们乘坐下一班飞机回家。 她传达了一个悲伤的消息:我们的父亲患有严重的心脏病,并且处于昏迷状态。


 在二十四小时内,我们每个人都按照出生顺序到达克利夫兰——首先是我的姐姐,然后是我的兄弟,然后是我。 就像是在暗示一样,我父亲在他最小的孩子到来后不到一个小时就从昏迷中醒来。 我们互相拥抱,经常轻声祈祷,意识到爸爸的记忆力很差。 展示照片帮助他了解方向,但他经常回到对他来说最快乐的较早时间和地点。 尽管如此,我们还是很珍惜在一起的每一刻,轮流在医院睡觉。


 大约五天的时间里,爸爸的呼吸和记忆力慢慢好转,因此他被安置在“降压”病房,并脱离了生命支持机器。 他很快就要回家了,我们一家人都松了口气,开始为他的康复制定计划。


 父亲的预后让我们感到安慰,我们都决定自抵达克利夫兰以来第一次睡在自己的床上,而不是在附近候诊室的医院沙发上露营。 因此,在家人回家吃晚饭后,我又呆了几个小时,和爸爸一起观看克利夫兰印第安人队的棒球比赛。 作为一名克利夫兰印地安人队的铁杆球迷,自 20 世纪 50 年代以来,他就再也没有见过世界冠军锦旗的颁发,去年印地安人队激动人心的赛季让他充满了活力。 这让他重新燃起了几十年来从未感受到的胜利的希望。 我们一起非常享受观看客场对阵多伦多蓝鸟队的全部九局比赛。 尽管这种情况一直持续到深夜,但爸爸在每次投球、每次击球以及最终的胜利中都保持清醒和警惕。 比赛结束时,我问爸爸是否可以和他一起祈祷——当我们的双手意外地握在一起时,我请求上帝带走任何恐惧,并派天使来包围他。 我吻了吻他的额头,沿着医院走廊走去,听到爸爸问护士:“我女儿为我祈祷,你听到那美妙的祈祷了吗?”


 第二天一早,我们一家人就被电话吵醒,让我们赶紧去医院——爸爸又心脏病发作了。 我们穿上外套,赶往医院。 当我们进入降压病房时,一位护士向我们报告了一个非常悲伤的消息:爸爸在睡梦中去世了,无法苏醒。


 我们和到达医院一样快地离开了医院,有点震惊,主要是震惊,因为我们没有更多的机会与父亲在一起或与他交谈。 随着这一天的到来,我们需要做出一些决定我父亲一生的决定。 我们给家人打电话,很多次都激动得哽咽。 我们甚至无法说话。


 我的丈夫仍在加利福尼亚州,虽然他当天早些时候就得到了这个消息,但下午晚些时候打电话过来问:“今天你听到上帝的声音了吗?” 他补充道,“你不想错过上帝的声音。” 然后他鼓励我花时间与神独处,与他交谈并聆听他的讲话。


 多年来,我们共同的日常聆听上帝谈话的习惯一直保持不变。 每天,我们都会打开一本 365 天的圣经来“今天”阅读——所以在 4 月 27 日聆听上帝对我们说话也不会有什么不同。 那天,新约读物转述了路加福音第 23 章中耶稣谈论死后生命的故事。 当天读经的最后一节说:“耶稣

replied, 'I assure you, today you will be with me in paradise' (v.erse 43 NLT).

As if heaven came down into my heart, I heard God talk to a daughter whose father had breathed his last breath and who needed comfort and assurance. On the day my father died, through my daily, planned Bible reading, I heard God saying to me, "Today, your dad is with me in heaven."

Now, I don't want you to misunderstand me by assuming that I believe this verse in Luke was written about me or for me. But I do want you to understand that I believe God talks to me on any given day by comforting me through Bible verses I'm reading that day.

As I sat upon the bed in the very bedroom I had occupied as a child, I both cried and laughed at the serendipitous communication I was having with God. Not someone who believes in luck or chance, I rushed out of my bedroom to share the verse in the gospel by Luke , with my mother and siblings. We determined to prominently place this very verse on the pamphlet that we would give to all those who attended the memorial service for my dad a few days later.


Later that evening, the Cleveland Indians televised a second baseball game in their series with the Blue Jays, again from Toronto's home stadium, which at the time was called the Sky Dome . Just as the game began, I was reminded of the sweet and final experience I had with my father the previous night while watching the game. Immediately - and at the time, I didn't know why - another thought came to mind. Find the Sports section. So I did. I located the newspaper that had been delivered to the front door of our family home every day for decades. I thumbed through each section of the Cleveland Plain Dealer until I found the front page of the Sports section.


In the mid-1990s, the Cleveland Indians' home games were played in a newly built and newly named stadium, Jacob's Field. At the time, their games were always sold out, and die-hard Indians fans who couldn't get seats for Cleveland home games had loaded dozens of buses for the Toronto series. Fans by the hundreds were willing to travel for hours and cross the Canadian border to see their beloved Indians play the SkyDome. The reporters were so impressed by the number of fans who had made the trek to Toronto that they made it the lead story on the front page of the Sports section on April 27, 1996. Across the page in big, bold letters was the question, "Has the SkyDome become Jacob's Field?"


Perhaps it is significant at this juncture to make a note that my father's name is Jacob Hunter. My grandfather's name is Jacob. And, my only son's name is Jacob.


For me, the local newspaper's reference to Jacob and the sky was not simply a coincidence. It was a timely, direct personal communication that came down from heaven into my hurting heart and our childhood home. I felt God talking to my family, comforting us with something we already knew but were grateful to be reminded of: On the day our earthly father passed away, he had gone to be with our Father in heaven.


God is determined to talk to you in ways that you will recognize - in order to spare you unnecessary pain and to remind you how intimately He is involved in every aspect of your life. God wants you to hear His personal, parental, protective, and powerful voice because He loves you deeply.


The second reason God talks to you is because He created you to communicate with Him as easily and as often as you communicate with others.


Most children raised in either Jewish or Christian homes have heard the stories of Joseph and Daniel, Moses and David, or Esther. In each case, the main person hears God talk, or a messenger from God speaks to them on His behalf. God's instruction usually causes a crisis of belief, along with some incredible

回答说:“我向你保证,今天你会和我一起在天堂里”(第 43 节 NLT)。

 仿佛天堂降临到我的心里,我听到上帝对一个女儿说话,她的父亲已经咽下了最后一口气,她需要安慰和保证。 在父亲去世的那天,通过我每天有计划的读经,我听到神对我说:“今天,你的父亲在天堂与我同在。”

 现在,我不想让你误会我,认为我相信路加福音中的这节经文是关于我或为我而写的。 但我确实希望你明白,我相信上帝在任何一天都会通过我当天正在阅读的圣经经文来安慰我。

 当我坐在我小时候住过的那间卧室的床上时,我为与上帝的偶然交流而哭又笑。 我不是一个相信运气或机会的人,我冲出卧室,与我的母亲和兄弟姐妹分享路加福音中的经文。 我们决定将这节经文放在小册子的显着位置,几天后我们将分发给所有参加我父亲追悼会的人。

 当天晚上晚些时候,克利夫兰印地安人队再次在多伦多的主场(当时被称为“天穹”)转播了他们与蓝鸟队系列赛的第二场棒球比赛。 比赛刚开始,我就想起前一天晚上看比赛时和父亲一起度过的甜蜜而最后的经历。 立刻——当时我不知道为什么——另一个想法浮现在我的脑海里。 找到体育部分。 所以我做了。 我找到了几十年来每天送到我们家前门的报纸。 我翻阅了克利夫兰平原经销商的每个部分,直到找到体育部分的首页。


 20 世纪 90 年代中期,克利夫兰印地安人队的主场比赛在新建并新命名的体育场雅各布球场 (Jacob's Field) 举行。 当时,他们的比赛总是售空,而无法获得克利夫兰主场比赛座位的印第安人铁杆球迷,已经装载了数十辆巴士来观看多伦多系列赛。 数百名球迷愿意花几个小时穿越加拿大边境,观看他们心爱的印第安人在天穹球场的比赛。 记者们对长途跋涉来到多伦多的球迷数量印象深刻,因此他们将其作为 1996 年 4 月 27 日体育版头版的头条新闻。整个页面上用大而粗的字母写着这样的问题: “天穹变成了雅各布的领域吗?”


 也许在这个时候记下我父亲的名字是雅各布·亨特是很重要的。 我祖父的名字是雅各布。 而且,我唯一的儿子叫雅各布。

 对我来说,当地报纸提到雅各布和天空不仅仅是巧合。 这是一种及时、直接的个人沟通,从天堂降临到我受伤的心和我们童年的家。 我感觉到上帝在对我的家人说话,用一些我们已经知道但很感激被提醒的事情来安慰我们:在我们地上的父亲去世的那天,他已经去与我们在天上的父亲在一起了。


 神决心以你能认出的方式与你交谈,以免你遭受不必要的痛苦,并提醒你他与你生活的方方面面密切相关。 神希望你听到他个人的、慈爱的、保护性的、强有力的声音,因为他深爱你。


 神与你交谈的第二个原因是,他创造了你,让你能够像与他人交流一样轻松、频繁地与他交流。


 大多数在犹太教或基督教家庭长大的孩子都听过约瑟和但以理、摩西和大卫或以斯帖的故事。 在每种情况下,主要人物都会听到上帝说话,或者上帝的使者代表他对他们说话。 上帝的指示通常会引起信仰危机,并伴随一些令人难以置信的事情



Speak LORD , ...

 GOD TALKS TO ANYONE!


I encourage you to humble yourself before God. Open your ears and your heart to His voice. Listen. Wait. Tell Him you need him. Ask Him to speak to you. Ask Him for courage and hope. Tell Him that you are struggling and that you are weak and afraid. Let Him talk to you!


God Talks to Those With a Simple, Childlike Trust


My friend and her granddaughter were talking about what to do when you feel afraid. The grandmother said, "Honey, if you ever feel afraid, just call on Jesus, and He'll come to you." The little girl looked at her grandmother, smiled brightly, and corrected her elder. She said, "Why would I have to call on Him, Gramma? He's always with me.

Is it really that simple? Can children feel or sense God's presence with them, even though He is invisible? Can a child hear God talk?

First Samuel -- one of the Bible's Old Testament books, a historical account of the nation of Israel around 1000 BC -- opens with the plight of Hannah, who was barren. During a tearful outpouring at the temple altar during the yearly religious celebration, she begged God to give her a child. The Message, a paraphrase off the Bible by Eugene Peterson, reveals her anguished appeal to God: "Crushed in soul... she made a vow:... By giving me a son, I'll give him...unreservedly to You" (1 Samuel 1:10-11). God answered her, and less than a year after her emotional altar encounter, she conceived and delivered a son. In deep gratitude,she fulfilled her promise to God and dedicated her young boy to the Lord by offering him to temple service. She named him Samuel, which means, "I asked God for him" (1 Samuel 1:20; from THE MESSAGE).


Not long after young Samuel began his temple service, he awoke from sleep in the middle of the night because he heard his name called out loud. He assumed it was the voice of Eli, the priest in charge of the temple, who resided in separate quarters. Because the voice was audible and real, the boy got out of bed and approached Eli to ask why he had called out to him. Eli had not called for the boy and told him to go back to bed. But after Samuel came to him two more times, Eli realized this phenomenon could, in fact, be God talking to the child. So, Eli instructed Samuel to go back to his room and listen carefully for the voice -- telling him that God would talk to him.


This would be intense pressure on a young boy who was dedicated to temple service by his praying mother, don't you think? He was not an adult, a leader, a seasoned temple worker, or even the son of the head temple priest -- he was just a child. In obedience, though, Samuel returned alone to his room, and upon hearing the voice again, he listened to God talk to him. The next morning, the child told Eli exactly what God had said, holding nothing back. It was a most serious message with disastrous consequences for Eli and his sons, who had been negligent in their priestly duties, even shaming God's name.


From that moment forward, God used Samuel continually to speak directly on His behalf to the nation of Israel, its leaders and followers, who very often seemed oblivious or rebellious to the voice of God.


But we should take notice that it was as a child that Samuel

developed the ability to differentiate between God's voice and his own thoughts or the voices of others.


Hearing God talk is not dependent upon age or gender, education, or perceived personal worth.


God talks to anyone -- whether a child, a parent, people who lead, or people who follow. 

God talks to the faithful and the faithless. 

God talks to the helpless or hopeless. 

God speaks both gently and powerfully to those who are humble or are being humbled in front of Him and others. 

And God talks personally to those who are dependent on Him or desperate for Him, both young and old. 

God talks to those who deeply put their trust in His name and His power and His Word. 

 And God talks to those who are running from Him.

Be still and know that the I AM IS GOD.

Must you be desperate or humble or childlike to hear God talk? Certainly, this is not a prerequisite list, but a common list of conditions through which the majority of us hear God talk whether we are completely empty or completely full of ourselves.

Bottom line? God can and does talk to anyone. How He chooses to get our attention will vary from person to person.

Of course, how you and I respond when God talks to us can either complicate or clarify our lives, and it certainly deserves continued discussion.


神与任何人说话!


 我鼓励你在神面前谦卑自己。 打开你的耳朵和你的心来聆听他的声音。 听。 等待。 告诉他你需要他。 请他对你说话。 向他祈求勇气和希望。 告诉他你正在挣扎,你很软弱并且害怕。 让他对你说话!


 神与那些怀着简单、孩子般的信任的人交谈


 我的朋友和她的孙女正在讨论当你感到害怕时该怎么做。 祖母说:“亲爱的,如果你感到害怕,就呼求耶稣,他就会来找你。” 小女孩看着奶奶,灿烂地笑了,纠正了长辈。 她说:“我为什么要去找他呢,奶奶?他总是和我在一起。


 真的有那么简单吗? 即使上帝是看不见的,孩子们能否感觉到上帝与他们同在? 孩子能听到上帝说话吗?


 《撒母耳记上》——《圣经》旧约全书之一,记录了公元前 1000 年左右以色列民族的历史——以不生育的哈拿的困境开始。 在一年一度的宗教庆典期间,她在圣殿祭坛上流泪,恳求上帝给她一个孩子。 该讯息是尤金·彼得森 (Eugene Peterson) 对《圣经》的释义,揭示了她对上帝的痛苦呼吁:“她的灵魂破碎……她发誓:……通过给我一个儿子,我将把他……毫无保留地赐给我 你”(撒母耳记上 1:10-11)。 上帝回应了她,在她情感的祭坛遭遇后不到一年,她就怀孕并生下了一个儿子。 怀着深深的感激之情,她履行了对上帝的承诺,将她的小儿子奉献给上帝,让他去圣殿服务。 她给他起名叫撒母耳,意思是“我为他祈求上帝”(撒母耳记上 1:20;摘自《信息》)。



 年轻的撒母耳开始圣殿礼拜后不久,他在半夜从睡梦中醒来,因为他听到有人大声喊他的名字。 他认为这是负责圣殿的祭司以利的声音,他住在不同的地方。 因为这个声音清晰可闻,而且是真实的,所以男孩下了床,走近伊莱,问他为什么叫他。 伊莱没有叫男孩,也没有叫他回去睡觉。 但在撒母耳又来找他两次之后,以利意识到这种现象实际上可能是上帝在对孩子说话。 因此,以利指示撒母耳回到他的房间,仔细聆听那个声音——告诉他上帝会和他说话。



 这对于一个在母亲的祈祷下致力于寺庙服务的小男孩来说会是巨大的压力,你不觉得吗? 他不是一个成年人,不是一个领袖,也不是一个经验丰富的寺庙工作人员,甚至不是寺庙首席祭司的儿子——他只是一个孩子。 然而,撒母耳顺从地独自回到了自己的房间,当他再次听到那个声音时,他听到了上帝对他说话。 第二天早上,孩子毫无保留地将上帝所说的话一字不漏地告诉了以利。 这是一个最严重的信息,给以利和他的儿子带来了灾难性的后果,他们疏忽了祭司的职责,甚至羞辱了上帝的名。



 从那一刻起,上帝不断地使用撒母耳代表他直接向以色列民族及其领袖和追随者说话,而以色列人往往似乎忽视或悖逆上帝的声音。



 但我们应该注意到,撒母耳是在孩童时期


 发展出区分上帝的声音和他自己的想法或他人的声音的能力。



 听到上帝说话并不取决于年龄或性别、教育程度或感知的个人价值。



 神与任何人交谈——无论是孩子、父母、领导者还是追随者。


 神对忠实的人和不忠实的人说话。


 神对无助或绝望的人说话。


 神对那些在他和其他人面前谦卑或正在谦卑的人说话,既温柔又有力。


 神亲自对那些依赖他或迫切需要他的人说话,无论年轻还是年老。


 神与那些深深信赖他的圣名、他的能力和他的话语的人交谈。


 神对那些逃离他的人说话。


 保持安静并知道“我是神”。

 你必须绝望、谦卑或像孩子一样才能听到上帝说话吗? 当然,这不是一个先决条件清单,而是一个常见的条件清单,通过这些条件,我们大多数人都能听到上帝说话,无论我们是完全空虚还是完全充满自己。

 底线? 上帝可以而且确实与任何人交谈。 他选择如何吸引我们的注意力因人而异。

 当然,当上帝对我们说话时,你我的反应可能会使我们的生活变得复杂或澄清,这当然值得继续讨论。

[GERMAN]

GOTT SPRICHT MIT JEDEM!


 Ich ermutige Sie, sich vor Gott zu demütigen. Öffne deine Ohren und dein Herz für seine Stimme. Hören. Warten. Sag ihm, dass du ihn brauchst. Bitten Sie ihn, mit Ihnen zu sprechen. Bitten Sie ihn um Mut und Hoffnung. Sagen Sie ihm, dass Sie Schwierigkeiten haben und dass Sie schwach und ängstlich sind. Lass ihn mit dir reden!


 Gott spricht zu denen mit einem einfachen, kindlichen Vertrauen


 Meine Freundin und ihre Enkelin haben darüber gesprochen, was man tun kann, wenn man Angst hat. Die Großmutter sagte: „Schatz, wenn du jemals Angst hast, rufe einfach Jesus an, und er wird zu dir kommen.“ Das kleine Mädchen sah ihre Großmutter an, lächelte strahlend und korrigierte ihre Ältere. Sie sagte: „Warum sollte ich ihn anrufen müssen, Oma? Er ist immer bei mir.“


 Ist es wirklich so einfach? Können Kinder die Gegenwart Gottes bei sich spüren oder spüren, auch wenn er unsichtbar ist? Kann ein Kind Gott reden hören?


 Das erste Buch Samuel – eines der alttestamentlichen Bücher der Bibel, ein historischer Bericht über die Nation Israel um 1000 v. Chr. – beginnt mit der Notlage der unfruchtbaren Hanna. Während der jährlichen religiösen Feier strömten Tränen am Altar des Tempels aus und sie flehte Gott an, ihr ein Kind zu schenken. Die Botschaft, eine Paraphrase aus der Bibel von Eugene Peterson, offenbart ihren angstvollen Appell an Gott: „In ihrer Seele zerschlagen … legte sie ein Gelübde ab: … Indem ich mir einen Sohn schenke, werde ich ihn ihm geben … vorbehaltlos.“ Du“ (1. Samuel 1,10-11). Gott antwortete ihr und weniger als ein Jahr nach ihrer emotionalen Altarbegegnung empfing sie einen Sohn und brachte ihn zur Welt. In tiefer Dankbarkeit erfüllte sie ihr Versprechen gegenüber Gott und weihte ihren kleinen Jungen dem Herrn, indem sie ihn zum Tempeldienst anbot. Sie nannte ihn Samuel, was bedeutet: „Ich bat Gott um ihn“ (1. Samuel 1:20; aus DER BOTSCHAFT).


 Kurz nachdem der junge Samuel seinen Tempeldienst begonnen hatte, erwachte er mitten in der Nacht aus dem Schlaf, weil er seinen Namen laut rufen hörte. Er nahm an, dass es die Stimme von Eli war, dem Priester, der für den Tempel verantwortlich war und in getrennten Räumen wohnte. Da die Stimme hörbar und real war, stand der Junge auf und ging auf Eli zu, um zu fragen, warum er ihn gerufen hatte. Eli hatte den Jungen nicht gerufen und ihm gesagt, er solle wieder ins Bett gehen. Doch nachdem Samuel noch zweimal zu ihm kam, erkannte Eli, dass dieses Phänomen tatsächlich darauf zurückzuführen sein könnte, dass Gott mit dem Kind sprach. Also wies Eli Samuel an, in sein Zimmer zurückzukehren und aufmerksam auf die Stimme zu lauschen – um ihm zu sagen, dass Gott mit ihm sprechen würde.


 Das wäre ein enormer Druck für einen kleinen Jungen, der sich von seiner betenden Mutter dem Tempeldienst verschrieben hat, finden Sie nicht auch? Er war kein Erwachsener, kein Anführer, kein erfahrener Tempelarbeiter und nicht einmal der Sohn des obersten Tempelpriesters – er war nur ein Kind. Gehorsam kehrte Samuel jedoch allein in sein Zimmer zurück, und als er die Stimme wieder hörte, hörte er zu, wie Gott zu ihm sprach. Am nächsten Morgen erzählte das Kind Eli genau, was Gott gesagt hatte, und hielt nichts zurück. Es war eine äußerst ernste Botschaft mit katastrophalen Folgen für Eli und seine Söhne, die ihren Priesterpflichten nachlässig nachgekommen waren und sogar Gottes Namen beschämt hatten.


 Von diesem Moment an gebrauchte Gott Samuel fortwährend, um direkt in seinem Namen zur Nation Israel, ihren Führern und Anhängern zu sprechen, die sehr oft die Stimme Gottes nicht zu bemerken schienen oder sich ihr gegenüber auflehnten.


 Aber wir sollten beachten, dass Samuel als Kind lebte

 entwickelte die Fähigkeit, zwischen Gottes Stimme und seinen eigenen Gedanken oder den Stimmen anderer zu unterscheiden.


 Das Reden Gottes hängt nicht vom Alter oder Geschlecht, der Bildung oder dem wahrgenommenen persönlichen Wert ab.


 Gott spricht zu jedem – sei es ein Kind, ein Elternteil, Menschen, die führen, oder Menschen, die ihm folgen.


 Gott spricht zu den Gläubigen und den Ungläubigen.


 Gott spricht zu den Hilflosen oder Hoffnungslosen.


 Gott spricht sowohl sanft als auch kraftvoll zu denen, die demütig sind oder vor ihm und anderen gedemütigt werden.


 Und Gott spricht persönlich zu denen, die von ihm abhängig sind oder verzweifelt nach ihm suchen, ob jung oder alt.


 Gott spricht zu denen, die zutiefst auf seinen Namen, seine Macht und sein Wort vertrauen.


 Und Gott spricht zu denen, die vor ihm fliehen.


 Sei still und wisse, dass das, was ICH BIN, GOTT ist.


 Muss man verzweifelt, demütig oder kindlich sein, wenn man Gott reden hört? Sicherlich handelt es sich hierbei nicht um eine Liste von Voraussetzungen, sondern um eine allgemeine Liste von Bedingungen, unter denen die meisten von uns Gott reden hören, unabhängig davon, ob wir völlig leer oder völlig von uns selbst erfüllt sind.

 Endeffekt? Gott kann und tut mit jedem reden. Wie er unsere Aufmerksamkeit erregt, ist von Person zu Person unterschiedlich.

 Natürlich kann die Art und Weise, wie Sie und ich reagieren, wenn Gott zu uns spricht, unser Leben entweder verkomplizieren oder klären, und es verdient auf jeden Fall eine weitere Diskussion.


(Korean)

하나님은 누구에게나 말씀하십니다!



 하나님 앞에 겸손하시길 바랍니다. 그분의 음성에 귀와 마음을 여십시오. 듣다. 기다리다. 당신에게 그가 필요하다고 그분께 말씀드리십시오. 그분께 당신에게 말씀해 달라고 요청하십시오. 그분께 용기와 희망을 달라고 구하십시오. 당신이 어려움을 겪고 있으며 약하고 두렵다고 그분께 말씀드리십시오. 그분께서 당신에게 말씀하시도록 하십시오!



 하나님께서는 단순하고 어린아이와 같은 신뢰를 가진 사람들에게 말씀하십니다



 내 친구와 그녀의 손녀는 두려움을 느낄 때 어떻게 해야 하는지에 대해 이야기하고 있었습니다. 할머니는 "여보, 혹시 두렵다면 예수님을 부르세요. 그러면 그분이 오실 거예요"라고 말했습니다. 어린 소녀는 할머니를 바라보며 환하게 웃으며 큰 아이를 바로잡았습니다. 그녀는 "할머니, 제가 왜 그분을 불러야 합니까? 그분은 항상 나와 함께 계십니다.


 정말 그렇게 간단합니까? 비록 하나님은 눈에 보이지 않지만 아이들이 그들과 함께 계시는 하나님의 임재를 느끼거나 느낄 수 있습니까? 어린아이도 하나님의 말씀을 들을 수 있나요?


 성경의 구약성서 중 하나이자 기원전 1000년경 이스라엘 민족의 역사를 기록한 사무엘상은 아이를 낳지 못하는 한나의 곤경으로 시작됩니다. 연례 종교 행사가 진행되는 동안 성전 제단에서 눈물을 흘리며 그녀는 하나님께 아이를 달라고 간청했습니다. 유진 피터슨(Eugene Peterson)이 성경을 의역한 메시지는 하나님께 대한 그녀의 비통한 호소를 드러냅니다. 너희는”(삼상 1:10-11). 하나님은 그녀에게 응답하셨고, 감정적인 제단을 만난 지 1년도 채 되지 않아 그녀는 임신하여 아들을 낳았습니다. 깊은 감사의 마음으로 그녀는 하나님과의 약속을 지켰고, 어린 아들을 성전 예배에 바쳐 주님께 바쳤습니다. 그녀는 그 아이의 이름을 사무엘이라고 지었는데, 이는 "내가 하나님께 그를 구하였다"는 뜻입니다(사무엘상 1:20; 메시지에서).



 어린 사무엘은 성전 예배를 시작한 지 얼마 되지 않아 한밤중에 자신의 이름이 큰 소리로 부르는 소리를 듣고 잠에서 깨어났습니다. 그는 그것이 별도의 숙소에 거주하는 성전을 관리하는 제사장인 엘리의 음성이라고 생각했습니다. 그 목소리가 들을 수 있고 실제적이었기 때문에 그 소년은 침대에서 일어나 엘리에게 다가가 왜 자기를 불렀는지 물었습니다. 엘리는 그 아이를 불러 다시 잠자리에 들라고 말하지 않았습니다. 그러나 사무엘이 두 번 더 그에게 온 후에 엘리는 이 현상이 사실은 하나님이 그 아이에게 말씀하시는 것일 수도 있다는 것을 깨달았습니다. 그래서 엘리는 사무엘에게 자기 방으로 돌아가서 하나님께서 그에게 말씀하실 것이라는 음성을 주의 깊게 들어보라고 지시했습니다.



 이것은 기도하는 어머니에 의해 성전 봉사에 헌신된 어린 소년에게 엄청난 압력이 될 것이라고 생각하지 않습니까? 그는 어른도 아니고, 지도자도 아니고, 노련한 성전 일꾼도 아니고, 심지어 성전 주지의 아들도 아닌, 그저 어린아이였습니다. 하지만 사무엘은 순종하여 혼자 자기 방으로 돌아왔고, 다시 그 음성을 듣자 하나님께서 그에게 말씀하시는 것을 들었습니다. 다음 날 아침, 그 아이는 엘리에게 하나님께서 말씀하신 그대로를 그대로 말했습니다. 그것은 제사장 직무를 소홀히 하고 심지어 하나님의 이름을 욕되게 한 ​​엘리와 그의 아들들에게 비참한 결과를 가져온 가장 심각한 메시지였습니다.



 그 순간부터 하나님은 사무엘을 사용하여 하나님의 음성을 자주 무시하거나 반항하는 것처럼 보였던 이스라엘 나라의 지도자와 추종자들에게 그분을 대신하여 계속해서 직접 말씀하셨습니다.



 그러나 우리는 사무엘이 어렸을 때부터 그랬다는 점에 유의해야 합니다.


 하나님의 음성과 자신의 생각 또는 다른 사람의 음성을 구별하는 능력이 발달했습니다.



 하나님의 말씀을 듣는 것은 나이, 성별, 교육 또는 인지된 개인적 가치에 달려 있지 않습니다.



 하나님은 자녀, 부모, 이끄는 사람, 따르는 사람 등 누구에게나 말씀하십니다.


 하나님은 신실한 자와 믿음이 없는 자에게 말씀하십니다.


 하나님은 무력하거나 절망적인 사람들에게 말씀하십니다.


 하나님은 자신과 다른 사람들 앞에서 겸손하거나 겸손해지는 사람들에게 부드럽고 강력하게 말씀하십니다.


 그리고 하나님은 젊은이와 노인을 막론하고 그분을 의지하거나 그분을 간절히 원하는 사람들에게 개인적으로 말씀하십니다.


 하나님은 그분의 이름과 능력과 말씀을 깊이 신뢰하는 사람들에게 말씀하십니다.


 그리고 하나님은 자신에게서 도망치는 자들에게 말씀하십니다.


 가만히 있어 내가 있는 자(I AM)가 신(God)이라는 것을 알아라.


 하나님의 말씀을 듣기 위해서는 필사적이어야 하고, 겸손해야 하고, 어린아이 같아야 합니까? 확실히 이것은 전제 조건 목록이 아니라 우리 대다수가 우리가 완전히 비어 있거나 완전히 우리 자신으로 가득 차 있는지 여부에 관계없이 하나님의 말씀을 듣는 일반적인 조건 목록입니다.


 결론은? 하나님은 누구에게나 말씀하실 수 있고 또 말씀하십니다. 그분이 우리의 관심을 끌기 위해 선택하시는 방법은 사람마다 다릅니다.


 물론, 하나님께서 우리에게 말씀하실 때 여러분과 내가 어떻게 반응하는지는 우리의 삶을 복잡하게 만들 수도 있고 명확하게 만들 수도 있으며, 이에 대해서는 확실히 계속해서 논의할 가치가 있습니다.

hananim-eun nuguegena malsseumhasibnida!



 hananim ap-e gyeomsonhasigil balabnida. geubun-ui eumseong-e gwiwa ma-eum-eul yeosibsio. deudda. gidalida. dangsin-ege geuga pil-yohadago geubunkke malsseumdeulisibsio. geubunkke dangsin-ege malsseumhae dallago yocheonghasibsio. geubunkke yong-giwa huimang-eul dallago guhasibsio. dangsin-i eolyeoum-eul gyeokkgo iss-eumyeo yaghago dulyeobdago geubunkke malsseumdeulisibsio. geubunkkeseo dangsin-ege malsseumhasidolog hasibsio!



 hananimkkeseoneun dansunhago eolin-aiwa gat-eun sinloeleul gajin salamdeul-ege malsseumhasibnida



 nae chinguwa geunyeoui sonnyeoneun dulyeoum-eul neukkil ttae eotteohge haeya haneunjie daehae iyagihago iss-eossseubnida. halmeonineun "yeobo, hogsi dulyeobdamyeon yesunim-eul buleuseyo. geuleomyeon geubun-i osil geoyeyo"lago malhaessseubnida. eolin sonyeoneun halmeonileul balabomyeo hwanhage us-eumyeo keun aileul balojab-assseubnida. geunyeoneun "halmeoni, jega wae geubun-eul bulleoya habnikka? geubun-eun hangsang nawa hamkke gyesibnida.


 jeongmal geuleohge gandanhabnikka? bilog hananim-eun nun-e boiji anhjiman aideul-i geudeulgwa hamkke gyesineun hananim-ui imjaeleul neukkigeona neukkil su issseubnikka? eolin-aido hananim-ui malsseum-eul deul-eul su issnayo?


 seong-gyeong-ui guyagseongseo jung hanaija giwonjeon 1000nyeongyeong iseula-el minjog-ui yeogsaleul giloghan samuelsang-eun aileul nahji moshaneun hannaui gongyeong-eulo sijagdoebnida. yeonlye jong-gyo haengsaga jinhaengdoeneun dong-an seongjeon jedan-eseo nunmul-eul heullimyeo geunyeoneun hananimkke aileul dallago gancheonghaessseubnida. yujin piteoseun(Eugene Peterson)i seong-gyeong-eul uiyeoghan mesijineun hananimkke daehan geunyeoui bitonghan hosoleul deuleonaebnida. neohuineun”(samsang 1:10-11). hananim-eun geunyeoege eungdabhasyeossgo, gamjeongjeog-in jedan-eul mannan ji 1nyeondo chae doeji anh-a geunyeoneun imsinhayeo adeul-eul nah-assseubnida. gip-eun gamsaui ma-eum-eulo geunyeoneun hananimgwaui yagsog-eul jikyeossgo, eolin adeul-eul seongjeon yebaee bachyeo junimkke bachyeossseubnida. geunyeoneun geu aiui ileum-eul samuel-ilago jieossneunde, ineun "naega hananimkke geuleul guhayeossda"neun tteus-ibnida(samuelsang 1:20; mesijieseo).



 eolin samuel-eun seongjeon yebaeleul sijaghan ji eolma doeji anh-a hanbamjung-e jasin-ui ileum-i keun solilo buleuneun solileul deudgo jam-eseo kkaeeonassseubnida. geuneun geugeos-i byeoldoui sugso-e geojuhaneun seongjeon-eul gwanlihaneun jesajang-in elliui eumseong-ilago saeng-gaghaessseubnida. geu mogsoliga deul-eul su issgo siljejeog-ieossgi ttaemun-e geu sonyeon-eun chimdaeeseo il-eona elliege dagaga wae jagileul bulleossneunji mul-eossseubnida. ellineun geu aileul bulleo dasi jamjalie deullago malhaji anh-assseubnida. geuleona samuel-i du beon deo geuege on hue ellineun i hyeonsang-i sasil-eun hananim-i geu aiege malsseumhasineun geos-il sudo issdaneun geos-eul kkaedal-assseubnida. geulaeseo ellineun samuel-ege jagi bang-eulo dol-agaseo hananimkkeseo geuege malsseumhasil geos-ilaneun eumseong-eul juui gipge deul-eobolago jisihaessseubnida.



 igeos-eun gidohaneun eomeonie uihae seongjeon bongsa-e heonsindoen eolin sonyeon-ege eomcheongnan ablyeog-i doel geos-ilago saeng-gaghaji anhseubnikka? geuneun eoleundo anigo, jidojado anigo, nolyeonhan seongjeon ilkkundo anigo, simjieo seongjeon jujiui adeuldo anin, geujeo eolin-aiyeossseubnida. hajiman samuel-eun sunjonghayeo honja jagi bang-eulo dol-awassgo, dasi geu eumseong-eul deudja hananimkkeseo geuege malsseumhasineun geos-eul deul-eossseubnida. da-eum nal achim, geu aineun elliege hananimkkeseo malsseumhasin geudaeloleul geudaelo malhaessseubnida. geugeos-eun jesajang jigmuleul soholhi hago simjieo hananim-ui ileum-eul yogdoege han ​​elliwa geuui adeuldeul-ege bichamhan gyeolgwaleul gajyeoon gajang simgaghan mesijiyeossseubnida.



 geu sunganbuteo hananim-eun samuel-eul sayonghayeo hananim-ui eumseong-eul jaju musihageona banhanghaneun geoscheoleom boyeossdeon iseula-el nalaui jidojawa chujongjadeul-ege geubun-eul daesinhayeo gyesoghaeseo jigjeob malsseumhasyeossseubnida.



 geuleona ulineun samuel-i eolyeoss-eul ttaebuteo geulaessdaneun jeom-e yuuihaeya habnida.


 hananim-ui eumseong-gwa jasin-ui saeng-gag ttoneun daleun salam-ui eumseong-eul gubyeolhaneun neunglyeog-i baldalhaessseubnida.



 hananim-ui malsseum-eul deudneun geos-eun nai, seongbyeol, gyoyug ttoneun injidoen gaeinjeog gachie dallyeo issji anhseubnida.



 hananim-eun janyeo, bumo, ikkeuneun salam, ttaleuneun salam deung nuguegena malsseumhasibnida.


 hananim-eun sinsilhan jawa mid-eum-i eobsneun ja-ege malsseumhasibnida.


 hananim-eun mulyeoghageona jeolmangjeog-in salamdeul-ege malsseumhasibnida.


 hananim-eun jasingwa daleun salamdeul ap-eseo gyeomsonhageona gyeomsonhaejineun salamdeul-ege budeuleobgo ganglyeoghage malsseumhasibnida.


 geuligo hananim-eun jeolm-eun-iwa noin-eul maglonhago geubun-eul uijihageona geubun-eul ganjeolhi wonhaneun salamdeul-ege gaeinjeog-eulo malsseumhasibnida.


 hananim-eun geubun-ui ileumgwa neunglyeoggwa malsseum-eul gip-i sinloehaneun salamdeul-ege malsseumhasibnida.


 geuligo hananim-eun jasin-egeseo domangchineun jadeul-ege malsseumhasibnida.


 gamanhi iss-eo naega issneun ja(I AM)ga sin(God)ilaneun geos-eul al-ala.


 hananim-ui malsseum-eul deudgi wihaeseoneun pilsajeog-ieoya hago, gyeomsonhaeya hago, eolin-ai gat-aya habnikka? hwagsilhi igeos-eun jeonje jogeon moglog-i anila uli daedasuga uliga wanjeonhi bieo issgeona wanjeonhi uli jasin-eulo gadeug cha issneunji yeobue gwangyeeobs-i hananim-ui malsseum-eul deudneun ilbanjeog-in jogeon moglog-ibnida.


 gyeollon-eun? hananim-eun nuguegena malsseumhasil su issgo tto malsseumhasibnida. geubun-i uliui gwansim-eul kkeulgi wihae seontaeghasineun bangbeob-eun salammada daleubnida.


 mullon, hananimkkeseo uliege malsseumhasil ttae yeoleobungwa naega eotteohge ban-eunghaneunjineun uliui salm-eul bogjabhage mandeul sudo issgo myeonghwaghage mandeul sudo iss-eumyeo, ie daehaeseoneun hwagsilhi gyesoghaeseo non-uihal gachiga issseubnida.


[Indonesian]

TUHAN BERBICARA KEPADA SIAPA PUN!


  Saya mendorong Anda untuk merendahkan diri di hadapan Tuhan. Bukalah telinga dan hati Anda terhadap suara-Nya. Mendengarkan. Tunggu. Katakan padanya kamu membutuhkannya. Mintalah Dia untuk berbicara kepada Anda. Mintalah keberanian dan harapan pada-Nya. Katakan kepada-Nya bahwa Anda sedang berjuang dan bahwa Anda lemah dan takut. Biarkan Dia berbicara dengan Anda!


  Tuhan Berbicara kepada Mereka yang Memiliki Kepercayaan yang Sederhana dan Seperti Anak Kecil


  Teman saya dan cucunya sedang membicarakan tentang apa yang harus dilakukan ketika Anda merasa takut. Sang nenek berkata, "Sayang, jika kamu merasa takut, panggil saja Yesus, dan Dia akan datang kepadamu." Gadis kecil itu memandang neneknya, tersenyum cerah, dan mengoreksi orang yang lebih tua. Dia berkata, “Mengapa aku harus memanggil-Nya, Nenek? Dia selalu bersamaku.


  Apakah sesederhana itu? Bisakah anak-anak merasakan atau merasakan kehadiran Tuhan bersama mereka, meskipun Dia tidak terlihat? Bisakah seorang anak mendengar Tuhan berbicara?


  Satu Samuel -- salah satu kitab Perjanjian Lama dalam Alkitab, catatan sejarah bangsa Israel sekitar tahun 1000 SM -- dibuka dengan penderitaan Hana, yang mandul. Saat dia menangis di altar kuil saat perayaan keagamaan tahunan, dia memohon kepada Tuhan untuk memberinya seorang anak. Pesan tersebut, yang diparafrasekan dari Alkitab oleh Eugene Peterson, mengungkapkan permohonan sedihnya kepada Tuhan: "Hatinya hancur... dia bersumpah:... Dengan memberiku seorang anak laki-laki, aku akan memberikannya... tanpa syarat kepada kamu” (1 Samuel 1:10-11). Tuhan menjawabnya, dan kurang dari setahun setelah pertemuan emosionalnya di altar, dia mengandung dan melahirkan seorang putra. Sebagai rasa syukur yang mendalam, dia memenuhi janjinya kepada Allah dan mendedikasikan putra kecilnya kepada Tuhan dengan menawarkan dia pada pelayanan bait suci. Dia menamainya Samuel, yang artinya, "Aku memohon padanya kepada Tuhan" (1 Samuel 1:20; dari PESAN).


  Tidak lama setelah Samuel muda memulai pelayanan bait sucinya, dia terbangun dari tidurnya di tengah malam karena dia mendengar namanya dipanggil dengan lantang. Dia berasumsi itu adalah suara Eli, pendeta yang bertanggung jawab atas kuil, yang tinggal di tempat terpisah. Karena suara itu terdengar dan nyata, anak laki-laki itu turun dari tempat tidur dan mendekati Eli untuk menanyakan alasan dia memanggilnya. Eli tidak memanggil anak itu dan menyuruhnya kembali tidur. Namun setelah Samuel menemuinya dua kali lagi, Eli menyadari bahwa fenomena ini sebenarnya adalah Tuhan yang berbicara kepada anak tersebut. Jadi, Eli memerintahkan Samuel untuk kembali ke kamarnya dan mendengarkan baik-baik suara tersebut -- memberitahunya bahwa Tuhan akan berbicara dengannya.


  Ini akan menjadi tekanan besar terhadap seorang remaja putra yang berdedikasi pada pelayanan bait suci oleh ibunya yang berdoa, bukan begitu? Dia bukanlah seorang dewasa, seorang pemimpin, seorang pekerja kuil berpengalaman, atau bahkan putra dari kepala pendeta kuil -- dia hanyalah seorang anak kecil. Namun dalam ketaatan, Samuel kembali sendirian ke kamarnya, dan setelah mendengar suara itu lagi, dia mendengarkan Tuhan berbicara kepadanya. Keesokan paginya, anak itu memberi tahu Eli apa yang Tuhan katakan, tanpa menahan diri. Ini adalah pesan yang sangat serius dengan akibat yang sangat buruk bagi Eli dan putra-putranya, yang telah lalai dalam tugas imamat mereka, bahkan mempermalukan nama Allah.



  Sejak saat itu, Allah terus menggunakan Samuel untuk berbicara langsung atas nama-Nya kepada bangsa Israel, para pemimpin dan pengikutnya, yang sering kali tampak tidak sadar atau memberontak terhadap suara Allah.


  Namun kita harus memperhatikan bahwa Samuel adalah seorang anak   mengembangkan kemampuan untuk membedakan antara suara Tuhan dan pikirannya sendiri atau suara orang lain.


  Mendengarkan firman Tuhan tidak bergantung pada usia atau jenis kelamin, pendidikan, atau nilai pribadi yang dirasakan.


  Tuhan berbicara kepada siapa pun -- baik itu anak-anak, orang tua, orang yang memimpin, atau orang yang mengikuti.


  Tuhan berbicara kepada yang beriman dan yang tidak beriman.


  Tuhan berbicara kepada mereka yang tidak berdaya atau putus asa.


  Tuhan berbicara dengan lembut dan kuat kepada mereka yang rendah hati atau sedang direndahkan di hadapan-Nya dan orang lain.


  Dan Tuhan berbicara secara pribadi kepada mereka yang bergantung pada-Nya atau putus asa kepada-Nya, baik tua maupun muda.


  Tuhan berbicara kepada mereka yang sangat percaya pada nama-Nya, kuasa-Nya, dan Firman-Nya.


  Dan Tuhan berbicara kepada mereka yang lari dari-Nya.


  Tenanglah dan ketahuilah bahwa AKU ADALAH TUHAN.


  Apakah Anda harus putus asa, rendah hati, atau kekanak-kanakan saat mendengarkan Tuhan berbicara? Tentu saja, ini bukanlah daftar prasyarat, namun daftar umum dari kondisi-kondisi yang melaluinya sebagian besar dari kita mendengarkan Tuhan berbicara apakah kita benar-benar kosong atau penuh dengan diri kita sendiri.


  Intinya? Tuhan dapat dan memang berbicara kepada siapa pun. Cara Dia memilih untuk menarik perhatian kita berbeda-beda pada setiap orang.


  Tentu saja, tanggapan Anda dan saya ketika Tuhan berbicara kepada kita dapat memperumit atau memperjelas hidup kita, dan hal ini tentunya patut untuk didiskusikan lebih lanjut.


Keep Sweet: The Cult of Warren Jeffs and FLDS

 The Netflix docuseries Keep Sweet: Pray and Obey tells the chilling story of Warren Jeffs and his rise in the Fundamentalist Church of Christ of Latter Day Saints (FLDS), an offshoot of the mainstream Mormon church.


FLDS members practice polygamy and assign women husbands by divine revelation to the prophet, in this case, Warren Jeffs. The church turned into a cult under Jeffs' leadership, and its practices led to concerns from outsiders about underage marriage and statutory rape.


But no one was prepared for the shocking crimes perpetrated by Warren Jeffs himself, who remains the prophet of FLDS to the present day, despite being in prison.


The docuseries, directed and produced by Emmy-winning filmmaker Rachel Dretzin, looks at both the ways in which Warren and his father transformed the group, but also at the hunt for, and ultimately, conviction of Warren for crimes against children.


“The strongest thing about this story is that it tells you a lot about human nature and the ways that these things can happen.” - Rachel Dretzin


Time Stamps:

00:00 - The trailer for Keep Sweet: Prey and Obey.

04:55 - A synopsis of what the docuseries is about. 

06:09 - The main practices of the Fundamentalist Church of Christ of Latter-Day Saints. 

07:20 - Warren Jeffs and the disturbing practices he was involved with. 

11:55 - What life was like for women in the FDLS. 

14:28 - Who was responsible for unearthing the crimes that Warren Jeffs was involved in.

17:05 - The ‘chosen members’ Warren Jeffs brought to Texas. 

22:45 - How people can be brainwashed to such a large extent. 

24:57 - How Rachel Dretzin got involved with the making of Keep Sweet: Prey and Obey. 

28:39 - The difficulty of having victims relive their trauma for the documentary. 

31:15 - The continuation of the FLDS and Warren Jeffs. 

33:15 - The next projects Rachel Dretzin is working on. 


Resources:

Keep Sweet: Prey and Obey (2022)

MovieMaker Magazine 

Innersound Audio 

Alamo Pictures


Connect with Rachel Dretzin:

IMDb

Twitter


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Transcript for Factual America Episode 103: Keep Sweet: The Cult of Warren Jeffs and FLDS

Rachel Dretzin 00:00

I'm Rachel Dretzin, and I am a documentary film director, directed this four part Netflix series, Keep Sweet: Pray and Obey, which was released on June 8 on Netflix.


Speaker 1 00:14

In our minds, the police, even the president of the United States, had no authority over us. Warren Jeffs was our president, he was the Prophet. And how could you place a human over God?


Speaker 2 00:27

Known as FLDS. It's a far offshoot of the Mormon Church and supports the practice of polygamy.


Speaker 3 00:36

The more wives, the more children you have, the higher in heaven you'll be.


Speaker 4 00:41

When you're taught something from birth from your mother and your father, you believe them, because they're your parents.


Speaker 5 00:47

It was for our salvation, you did whatever it took, even if it was wrong.


Speaker 6 00:52

One day, my name was brought up, and I was to be married. I was 14.


Speaker 7 01:00

Warren Jeffs took over this religion and turned it into money and power and sex.


Speaker 8 01:06

Young girls were like a commodity owned by the church.


Speaker 9 01:11

Warren had himself 78 wives. Twenty-four of those wives were underage.


Speaker 10 01:16

We're gonna go after the criminals, and we're gonna go after the child abusers.


Speaker 11 01:18

To stand up against a multimillion dollar church. You're going up against a lifetime of conditioning and fear.


Speaker 12 01:25

He took their families away, took their homes away. Might as well just have lined 'em up against a wall and shot 'em.


Speaker 13 01:33

You don't fight the priesthood. You don't fight the Prophet. But it was so much bigger than just Warren and me.


Speaker 14 01:40

It happens to everybody, eventually; you will come around and see the light.


Speaker 15 01:48

We love you.


Speaker 16 01:49

I love all of you.


Speaker 17 01:52

And go what the f***


Speaker 18 01:52

[Singing] Sweet spirit of prayer.


Matthew 02:04

This is Factual America. We're brought to you by Alamo Pictures, an Austin and London based production company making documentaries about America for international audiences. I'm your host, Matthew Sherwood. Each week, I watch a hit documentary and then talk with the filmmakers and their subjects. This week, it is my pleasure to welcome Emmy winning filmmaker Rachel Dretzin, the executive producer and director of the hit Netflix docu-series, Keep Sweet: Pray and Obey. The film tells the chilling story of Warren Jeffs and his rise in the Fundamentalist Church of Christ of Latter Day Saints. Members of the FLDS Church practice polygamy and assign women husbands by divine revelation to the Prophet, in this case, Warren Jeffs. These practices led to concerns from outsiders about underage marriage and statutory rape. But no one was prepared for the shocking crimes perpetrated by Warren Jeffs himself. Stay tuned as we learn more about this horrific story and Rachel's efforts to bring it to the screen. Rachel, welcome to Factual America. How are things with you?


Rachel Dretzin 03:08

Very well, thank you. And thanks for having me.


Matthew 03:11

Well, thank you for coming onboard to the Factual America podcast. It's great to have you. As our listeners and viewers will have heard or seen, we're talking about the film, Keep Sweet: Pray and Obey, streaming on Netflix. It's a four part docu-series. So, congratulations. This is a regular fixture in the Netflix Top 10. At least whenever I'm checking. Have you been surprised by the reaction?


Rachel Dretzin 03:39

I have to say I have been a bit. I've been surprised by how well it's done, which is obviously very gratifying. It's been high up in the Top 10 for almost two weeks since it initially was released, which is great. And I've also been, I would say a little bit surprised at just how disturbed people are. Disturbed in a way that I think is valuable and important and meaningful, but still very disturbed. There's a lot of true crime, and a lot of horror, out there, and I think part of me thought audiences would be more inured to what they see in the documentary, but in fact, they're not. At least the ones that are expressing themselves on Twitter and Tik Tok and other social media seem to be really shaken by what they're seeing.


Matthew 04:29

Well, I can understand - having seen all four episodes, I can understand that reaction, actually. Well, it's interesting. We're going to talk more about that. I mean, maybe before we get started in that discussion, maybe you can tell us for our listeners or viewers who haven't had a chance to see it yet, what is Keep Sweet: Pray and Obey about? Maybe you can give us a synopsis.


Rachel Dretzin 04:55

Sure. Well, Keep Sweet: Pray and Obey is about an extremist, fundamentalist, polygamist offshoot of the mainstream Mormon Church, called the Fundamentalist Church of Latter Day Saints. And it's essentially a religion that became a cult under the leadership of Warren Jeffs, who was the Prophet of the FLDS from 2002 until the present. And it looks at both the ways in which Warren and his father transformed the group but also the hunt, and ultimately, conviction of Warren for crimes against children.


Matthew 05:40

Indeed. So, you started telling us a bit about the FLDS Church. Maybe, sort of, and I think it's fair enough to say as you say, it's been certainly transformed into a cult. But maybe its beliefs or practices people may not be aware. What are some of the main practices that, maybe, people would recognize the FLDS by.


Rachel Dretzin 06:09

Well, the FLDS, being fundamentalist Mormons, believe, literally, in some of the original precepts of Mormonism. Central to the FLDS is the belief that a man has to have multiple wives, in fact that a man has to have at least three wives in order to be able to achieve eternal salvation. That's really the most important belief of the FLDS that distinguishes them from the mainstream Mormon Church now, and it's certainly at the heart of what we look at in our series.


Matthew 06:42

Okay. And as you've already mentioned, at the center of what the documentary explores are the Jeffs, and I mean that in terms of their surnames. It's Rulon Jeffs who, I guess, is referred to as Uncle Rulon, and then Warren Jeffs. Maybe, you - Well, I mean, I think when you're talking about the reaction you've been receiving, I think it especially comes down to Warren Jeffs, in particular, but maybe you can tell us more about the father and son and this family that has basically run the FLDS for many years.


Rachel Dretzin 07:18

Sure. Well, Rulon Jeffs became the Prophet in the 1980s. And he was certainly less of a tyrant than his son, but he actually did sort of begin to initiate some of the more disturbing, you know, some of the more disturbing practices of the Church. Namely, he began to marry very young women, when he was in his 80s. And he had 65 wives, I believe, by the time that he passed away in 2002, a bunch of them were much younger. And most of them got married, not knowing anything about sex, or how babies were made. And in fact, some of the more disturbing scenes in the series, involve Rulon who would take these women to bed and try to have some kind of sexual relations with them. Despite the fact that they were very young and very innocent, naive, and this was not happening. This was largely happening against their will. And then, when he died, his son, Warren, who was one of his many children, but his favorite, sort of forced himself into power. There wasn't a clear line of succession in the FLDS, so, it isn't clear when somebody dies, who the next Prophet will be, but in this case, Warren was pretty manipulative about the ways in which he kind of insinuated himself into that position. And once he took power, he began a really kind of stunning concentration of power, that involved a very systematic process of sort of punishing people who resisted him or questioned him, and rewarding people who didn't - of controlling the way people dressed, their schooling, what they were allowed to do, think, you know, to the point of kind of astonishing extremes that really, sort of boggle the mind.


Matthew 09:35

I mean, it's not too strong to even use the term like Stalinesque, isn't it? I mean, it's like, full of - I mean, that's what I found surprising, you know, these purges; the way he was setting people off against each other, and trying to control people, not just trying, actually controlling people's lives was...


Rachel Dretzin 09:54

Yes, well, you know, he studied Hitler. He actually spoke German and carried around books written by Hitler, so he knew what he was doing. And, you know, he did have these kind of, these purges, in which he would not only, you know, throw people out of the Church, sort of at will, without any real cause, but he would - and we tell the story of one of these purges in the series - you know, he would tear them away from their families and not allow them to say goodbye to their families, and essentially throw them out of the Church without - most of these people had very little by way of education, skills, independent financial standing. So, they were just, you know, it was a decimation. And people who were thrown out of the Church or left the Church were considered apostates, and people inside the Church, were not permitted to speak to them or see them. So, this was like a real, a real trauma for a lot of families. And it ramped up over the course of Warren's rule, so that by the end, he was just tearing women from their children, children from their mothers, fathers from their wives. I mean, it was, like, constant and extremely widespread, and he created a generation of trauma in that religion.


Matthew 11:17

Yeah. I mean, I think that is - I mean, some of the scenes you're talking about, you know, there's that one scene where he basically does the big purge, at a meeting, I think, and that was quite chilling, and the surveillance and everything. And then coupled with sort of beliefs that people had about his power and where it emanated from. I mean, we've already - I mean, as you've already mentioned, what young women and we later know girls, face, but, I mean, generally, what was life like for women, or is like for women in the FLDS?


Rachel Dretzin 11:57

Well, the 'was' and the 'is' are quite different. And it has gotten progressively worse over time. You know, in the early days, you know, women were plural wives for the most part. But I would say they had a lot more freedom as plural wives, you know, they could dress, they all had to cover their bodies, you know, from neck to ankle, but they could pretty much wear whatever they wanted. And they weren't really tracked so closely. Over the course of Warren's rule, he started by telling women they couldn't wear the color - anybody - they couldn't wear the color red. And then women had to wear long underwear, you know, that just covered their bodies, under their dresses, they wore these floor length dresses, and then it became they all had to wear - no, they couldn't have any prints - and then he took away colors except for pastels. So, they all ended up in these like light pink, light blue, light yellow dresses, and they had to wear their hair in this incredibly specific way, which took hours to do. And no hair could be loose, no hair could be hanging, it had to be sort of poofed up in this very unsightly odd kind of oval shaped thing. And so, that was the kind of aesthetics of being female. But beyond that women, for the most part, didn't get to go to school, past fourth, or at most eighth, grade. They were valued only as wives and breeders of children, and beyond that they really were not given any autonomy or freedom of movement or thought. So, it was a pretty oppressive existence, and it got more and more oppressive as time went on. Then, you know, he started marrying women off at younger and younger ages. When his father was in power, women tended to get married, or girls tended to get married, when they were 18 and up, you know, 18 to 25, but Warren started sliding that age down. And by the time that he was arrested in 2008, he was marrying girls off as young as 12 to 14; had wives himself that were 12 years old.


Matthew 14:04

And is that what finally raised eyebrows and concerns? I mean, you know, this Church had been in existence for a long time in the wilds of Utah and Arizona. But what finally raised eyebrows? I mean, they could, you know, live this existence for so long, and then finally, people started snooping around and asking questions.


Rachel Dretzin 14:28

Yeah, I mean, it took a lot longer than it should have. There were a few kind of lone rangers out there. A private investigator named Sam Brower, who we feature in the series; a local journalist named Mike Watkiss; a few other people who were really, you know, started to get very suspicious and look for evidence that Warren was committing crimes and ultimately to try to get witnesses who'd be willing to testify against him, but the state and local legal authorities didn't really get involved until the sort of mid 2000s, when, yes, there were a few women who managed to flee, and were willing to speak up and testify about what had happened to them. And that was when things really began to tighten, and the state began to really pursue Warren Jeffs in a serious way, but it was difficult because so few of the girls were willing to testify because it would just, you know, what was in it for them, really, they would lose everything. And they were, as somebody says in the film, they'd be testifying against their fathers and brothers and husbands. I mean, this wasn't just Warren Jeffs, this was, you know, everybody was marrying younger girls. And so it was a really, it was a pretty widespread practice.


Matthew 15:50

Okay. I think that takes us actually to a good point for an early, early break. So, we'll be right back with Rachel Dretzin, director and executive producer of Keep Sweet: Pray and Obey. It's on Netflix, and it's a four part docu-series.


Factual America midroll 16:06

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Matthew 16:25

Welcome back to Factual America. I'm here with award winning filmmaker Rachel Dretzin, director and executive producer of Keep Sweet: Pray and Obey, a regular fixture in the Top 10 list on Netflix. Rachel, we've been talking about the Fundamentalist Church of Latter Day Saints, the FL - FDL - Why, I always get this wrong?! The acronym, whatever it is, it is the fundamentalist Mormon sect / cult that we've been talking about. So, at this point, not trying to just do this chronologically, but Warren Jeffs ends up on the lam, doesn't he? He's kind of on the run. And this interesting thing happens where he basically tries to move his flock - not just tries, he does move his flock to Texas...


Rachel Dretzin 17:21

Well, some of his flock.


Matthew 17:23

Some of his flock that's a good point.


Rachel Dretzin 17:25

He's very particular about who gets to go and who doesn't. Texas was a - it was a ranch that was in a very remote part of Texas that Warren purchased secretly with FLDS money and created an extraordinary compound there; almost like a little city. And nobody knew where it was. But everybody, most of his followers at that point were in Utah and Arizona. Right on the border between Utah and Arizona in a small community called Short Creek, and they began hearing about this place that Warren called Zion. And Zion was this mysterious place that was only - you had to be chosen. Actually, the way it was framed is, God had to whisper your name to the Prophet. And if he whispered your name to the Prophet, and if you were worthy enough, you would be chosen to go. And so, people were just disappearing. They would be told that their name had been spoken and that they were going to Zion and they wouldn't know where they were going, and they would be brought in the middle of the night, often to this ranch. And on this ranch, you know, they were supposedly among the chosen ones. And over time, more and more of Warren's followers were settled there to the point where there were hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people there including about 480 children.


Matthew 18:47

Yeah. And then that leads to, well, there's - I mean, for some people it was a highly publicized incident with the - I guess it was, what, in 2008 or so, somewhere in there, where Texas law enforcement gets involved and they take the children away and it's this incredible scenes of even people like Oprah Winfrey showing up and the members showing up on Good Morning America and all these staples of American television. Which is - it's quite amazing. It's quite a - I mean, in the context of - especially as you tell the story, that kind of part comes, I think, in episode three after we've heard all these things about - not all the things that we will eventually hear about - but, yes, they have their 15 minutes in the public eye, and it's a very strange situation.


Rachel Dretzin 19:49

It's very strange, and it is really the first time that the FLDS became really known, I think, to the public in a big way. By that point, Warren Jeffs was actually already in prison. He had been convicted. He had two trials. Convicted in the first trial. But, you know, the trial happened in Utah. And His sentence was not a life sentence. And he continued to really run the church from prison. And so, there were still hundreds and hundreds of people on the ranch, but law enforcement, Texas, local law enforcement was definitely, you know, they were suspicious, they knew that the prophet of this community had gone to prison for underage marriage, they didn't really, they didn't have a reason to enter the ranch, but they were watching it and waiting. And then they got a call from a girl who claimed to be underage and to be pregnant against her will and abused. And so, they finally obtained a search warrant to go on to the ranch. And when they got there, they realized not only were there many underage mothers on the ranch, but there were hundreds of children. And so, they made this decision to remove the children and many of the women from the ranch. And that was an enormous operation and got the attention of a lot of media. What's interesting about it is that the Church mounted a really sophisticated PR campaign in which a lot of the women whose children had been removed, went on television and went on all these shows that they would never have gone on before and wept and actually, what ended up happening was they really won the public sympathy. And Texas ended up returning all of those children.


Matthew 21:42

But yet, eventually - I mean, a lot of times on our podcast, we're talking about spoiler alerts and everything. I don't think - I mean, I don't feel like I even need to say that with this, because we're not going to go into the details of the stuff that you'll see when you watch this, but it is - I think I had a similar reaction to many of the people you've been talking to who've watched it. I mean, these shocking revelations about what was actually - I mean, it's shocking, not just - it's shocking to people who were actually - well, at least the former members of the Church. I mean, they're aware of some of the things that were going on, but they weren't aware of all the stuff that was going on. And I just recommend that people watch the film. It's episode four, specifically, but all of the episodes, obviously, but, I mean, you've spent a lot of time on this project, you've interviewed a lot of people. How does something like this happen, you think?


Rachel Dretzin 22:45

You mean, how does such evil?


Matthew 22:47

Yeah.


Rachel Dretzin 22:47

Well, I think that that's really a profound question. And I think much of what I tried to do in the series was sort of explain or show the sort of methodical way in which this kind of brainwashing and mind control can happen. You know, these people were born, the vast majority of them were born, into this religion. So, start there. They didn't know anything else. And they were very isolated from the outside world. Even before Warren Jeffs took power, most of the FLDS lived apart, and they spent time with each other, they didn't interact. But once Warren took power, he forbade television, movies, music, internet, you know, people really - I mean, as one person in the film says, I didn't even know who the president of the United States was. So, you know, they were really sheltered from outside influences. And so, you know, with that - and he infected the religion with fear, because people knew that if they disobeyed or questioned him, they could lose everything, including their families. So, they dared not do it. So, you put all of that together, and you start to understand how actually very bright, rational human beings can, you know, support something that's so extraordinarily despotic. They also did not know the worst of what Warren was up to. Vast majority of people in the FLDS did not know. Some still do not know to this day. And they were told that the outside world were monsters, and were out to get them so they didn't trust the information that they got from outside of the cult. It tells you a lot, actually, about human nature and about the ways in which this kind of thing can happen, which is one of the strongest things about this story.


Matthew 24:53

So, how did you come along on to this project?


Rachel Dretzin 24:58

Well, I actually had never heard of the FLDS...


Matthew 25:00

I was gonna ask you about that, did you...


Rachel Dretzin 25:02

I hadn't, which is surprising, actually, but I hadn't heard about it. I mean, I knew they were polygamists, but I really didn't know more than that. Somebody in my - I have a documentary film company, and we have a vice president of development, a very talented man named Zack Herrmann, and he had spoken to a journalist named Alison Dammann, who's now one of our executive producers, about the story. She had essentially brought the story to him, and he brought it to me. And, initially, I was not, I was, you know, a little kind of, I don't know, I had a little bit of an allergic reaction to the subject matter. I thought, This sounds really, you know, really out there. And the kind of thing you see on, you know, junk TV, you know, I was a little hesitant to get in on it. Till I went, I went to Utah, and I met with the private investigator, Sam Brower, who's in the series, as well as some of the women. He introduced me to several people who had left the FLDS, and I was really astonished, honestly, by the fact that this still exists in 21st century America. I couldn't believe it. And I couldn't believe how relatable the people I met were. And I thought, you know, if this is so stunning to me, it feels like a story that needs to be told. And so, that's when I decided to start developing the story. It took me a long time to figure out a way to do it. And that took a couple of years, actually.


Matthew 26:35

And what was that main challenge that you were dealing with?


Rachel Dretzin 26:37

Well, I didn't want to, I didn't want to kind of succumb to the shock value of the material. It is shocking, but the FLDS had been covered in the media over the years, and it tended to be done, not across the board, but it tended to be done in a very sensationalized way. People focused on the sex, you know, and I really wanted to find another way in and it was really when I decided to tell the story, mostly from the perspective of women, particularly women who had stood up against the evils of the Church that I began to see a new way of telling an old story. And, I think, a story that had never really been approached in a kind of holistic, comprehensive way. I also really wanted to tell the story of the way this kind of totalitarian power was built, and that hadn't really been done. So, those were sort of my two goals.


Matthew 27:48

Yeah. Well, and certainly achieved, I mean, as someone who was, you know, we got you on, I was going to watch it, I was like, Okay - like you, What is this about? And it's anything but sensationalized, certainly. And it's extremely compassionate storytelling, I found, because it would have been very easy to, I don't know, I mean, not that that's what proper documentary filmmakers do, but it would have been very easy to put a lot of these people in a bad light and just make them all look like a bunch of bumpkins or whatever. And I agree with you, everyone comes across so well; it's very compelling from that standpoint. I guess the other main challenge, maybe, would have been - I mean, with something like this, how do you make women live through this again, because they do have to tell this story again, one that they've already maybe told in court, or maybe never have told at all?


Rachel Dretzin 28:48

It's a great question, and it was one of the most challenging aspects of making the series was having to interview these women about this trauma, which had happened for many of them over decades. Our interviews were very long. A lot of them ran 8, 10, 12 hours, which we would spread out, if we could, over several days, but it was pretty grueling. I felt like I did not want to edit these women. I wanted to allow them to do this their way. And for many of them, they were telling their life story. And so, it was really important to just take our time, give them space. We had at least one central subject in the film; after the first day - we got about halfway through the interview, and she couldn't continue for several months. It took several months for her to feel like she was ready to keep going. So, that was the other thing we tried to do was just be patient with them. It was very difficult, you know, it was very emotional, it was very difficult. Watching the series was difficult. Although, I'll say one of the most gratifying things about this experience for me has been that every single subject that we interviewed has reached out to us since the series aired, and expressed such gratitude, and really feels good about what they saw, which is really gratifying, because you know, it's a very dark story. But we really tried to put them at the center of the story. I think a lot of the time with true crime, you end up getting really fascinated by the perpetrator. And Warren Jeffs is quite fascinating, no question about it, but we tried to make sure that focus stayed on the victims and survivors.


Matthew 30:52

Yeah. Well, indeed, and I think it's - well, I very much appreciate it. And I think it's extremely well told and it's a story worth - in that regard, is certainly well worth telling. I mean, you've obviously spent a lot of time in sort of Arizona, Utah, and these areas, I mean, the FLDS is still going, isn't it; it still exists.


Rachel Dretzin 31:22

It does still exist. It is still going. Nobody knows exactly how many people still follow Warren Jeffs, but seems like 1000s. It's definitely lost a lot of its power over the years since he went to prison. And many, many more people have left and more and more people leave every year. But yeah, I met many people who are still in the FLDS. And still very loyal to Warren. It is extraordinary. But, you know, when you think about it, again, you're born into something like this. You never, ever learned how to trust anything outside of it, it's very difficult to leave it, you know, it's not an easy - what's miraculous is that people do leave, actually, that so many people do leave.


Matthew 31:24

Well, yeah, and we didn't go into it, but there's certainly so many - it's certainly told, you know, we see it in the doc, you know, efforts of people who did try to leave at least the first time and how they were brought back in and how they were found. And, you know, and as you say, the ties to family and all these things. So, no, it's very interesting. It's one of these very thought provoking docs because it gets you thinking, you know, it's not - it's, well, it is obviously about the fundamentalist Mormon sect, but it is so much more than that, in terms of human character and what any of us would be like if we had been in similar circumstances. So...


Rachel Dretzin 32:37

Exactly. I mean, that, for me, that was the big revelation was if I were in similar circumstances, I can't say that I would have done anything different. And that's not the way we usually think of people.


Matthew 33:06

Yeah. So, what's next for you? More true crime? Do you have any projects you can tell us about?


Rachel Dretzin 33:16

I'm not sure, yet, actually. I'm exploring a few different stories. I wish I were at liberty to say what they are, but they're not far enough along for me to say. I have a production company, so, we're doing a bunch of projects that I'm executive producing. So, that's been keeping me pretty busy. Couple of projects for HBO and elsewhere. But we'll wait, we'll see. Ask me in a few months, and I'll give you an answer.


Matthew 33:43

Well, we'd love to. Love to have you back on, once you've settled on a project or get something in production. But I imagine you might go for something that's not quite as dark. Could you do something like this again? Or anytime soon?


Rachel Dretzin 33:57

Well, that's an really interesting question. I definitely think I probably won't do something as dark but I will say that the territory is so rich. And in many ways, I don't feel done with it. There's so many stories around this group that we didn't get a chance to tell. And many of them are actually uplifting. They're stories of people rebuilding their lives, you know, and trying to reinvent themselves, and enter mainstream society. I mean, it's so rich. So, I'm not sure I'm done with that. I also fell in love with Utah. Utah is just the most exquisitely beautiful landscape. I mean, you see it in the series that just, like, it's almost godly, you know, you can understand why these people were so overwhelmed in a way because the landscape itself is so stunning and big. So, yeah.


Matthew 34:52

Well, we'll keep an eye out for another doc related to this and any others. And I know it will be done well if you do it. So, thank you again so much for coming on to the podcast. It has been a joy having you. Just to remind our listeners, we've been talking with award winning filmmaker Rachel Dretzin, director and executive producer of Keep Sweet: Pray and Obey. I tell you, I will never be able to hear that term, keep sweet, again. It's just, it's chilling. It just makes me - anyway, it's a film, it's on Netflix, it's a four part docu-series. Definitely give it a watch. Thanks again, Rachel. Love to have you on again some time.


Rachel Dretzin 35:37

I really enjoyed it.


Matthew 35:38

All right, take care. Thank you.


Rachel Dretzin 35:40

You too. Bye bye.


Matthew 35:43

I'd like to give a shout out to Sam and Joe Graves at Innersound Audio in Escrick, England, in deepest, darkest Yorkshire. A big thanks to Nevena Paunovic, podcast manager at Alamo Pictures, who ensures we continue getting great guests onto the show. And finally, a big thanks to our listeners. As always, we love to hear from you. So, please keep sending us feedback and episode ideas. You can reach out to us on YouTube, social media, or directly by going to our website, www.factualamerica.com and clicking on the Get in Touch link. And as always, please remember to like us and share us with your friends and family, wherever you happen to listen or watch podcasts. This is Factual America, signing off.